Congaree Swamp NP Expedition

Congaree NP Expedition

Official Dates: February 21-23 2009

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TOPIC: Sizing Up The East.
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/c9f414465abb655c?hl=en
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On May 2, 8:14 pm, Bob Leverett wrote:

I share some of Will' Blozanss pique over Congaree and my own frustration over other situations where inaccurate data have been used by professionals/academics (who should know better) to draw conclusions about particular trees and forests. Most of the time, inaccurate data and erroneous conclusions have little impact outside of our small circle, but on occasion, erroneous conclusions come at a price. Tom Diggins once wrote a compelling argument for why inaccurate data are a problem, especially where preservation of a site is being sought. Inaccurate data presented about other locations can reduce the importance of the site in the eyes of decision makers and the public. Zoar Valley, NY comes to mind... We now have top-of-the-line scientists like Steve Sillet and Robert Van Pelt who, as part of their research, do outstanding tree measuring work - state of the art stuff - best in the world. They've set the measuring bar very, very high. It is important for all Ents to understand that Will's tree measuring skills and accomplishments are at their level. He's there with them and they certainly recognize and acknowledge his expertise.

In the case of Congaree NP, it would be useful to do a new study in Congaree. We need to refine the average canopy height of that park as well as search for more individually outstanding trees. The effort would incorporate past ENTS efforts, but should absolutely not utilize data from other sources. And by the way, literature searches that cite existing studies that employed the old measurement methods accomplishes nothing. How many people should we field? Well, as a minimum there's Will, myself, and Michael Davie. With Larry Tucei and James Parton joining the measuring crew, our depth in the Southeast is expanding. It would be great to have them and maybe we could persuade Will Fell from Georgia to join us. We could go to SUNY in NY and kidnap Jess Riddle and then to Shelburne Falls, Mass to kidnap John Eichholz, and then over to Pennsylvania to kidnap the whole A-team. We could field one heck of a team and hopefully get some good press out of it. Should we decide to do this
> at some future date - say next March, how would we present the results of our efforts to those who we would want to be receptive to the results? Ah, that's the challenge. Prides are no doubt involved by local Park personnel who gave the Congaree study a level of credibility that it did not earn.

Bob Leverett

On May 6, 9:57 pm, Will Fell wrote:
It ought to be good. The Congaree is a "regulated" river because of
all the dams upstrean and flooding is not as much a problem, but if
there is a wet winter they do let water off in early spring amd areas
could be unavailable in spring. Generally barring a hurricane, late
summer or fall sees fairly low water levels in the south.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, May 8 2008 6:09 am
From: Bruce P. Allen

Will,

While the Congaree does have a number of low head dams, it still
floods in a somewhat natural manner. The Saluda dam only reduces
flood peaks about 18% (when the dam isn't full). Depending on the
year, January to April have pretty good chances of seeing floods.
Check the water level in Columbia on the USGS web site. It gives you
about a 48 hour preview of park water levels. Guts begin to fill at
10,000 to 12,000 cfs, sheet flow over the bottomland hard woods starts
at ~ 24,000 cfs. Even if water levels are not up, previous flood may
leave the sloughs full of water making navigation more difficult.

Bruce

Bruce Allen writes (May 08, 2008):

When you look out across the canopy of the Congaree, you don't see
scattered emergent trees with a canopy below, you see a fairly uniform
canopy - implying a very tall canopy based on Bobs measurements. Cove
forests just don't occupy as large a continuous area in landscape.
Though there are many small patches in the Smokies that exceed the
Congaree, they aren't in 10,000 acre patches. To compare Rucker
indexes between the Congaree and the Smokies, keep in mind that the
smokies are more than 20 times the size with more than a mile of
topographic variation. I think the Congaree might hold up better than
you think, it has more species that reach 140 feet than any park in
the east I think and its tree species diversity rivals the Smokies.

Will Blozan Writes (May 08, 2008):

I did not realize you have had an aerial view of Congaree. True, the general
canopy is flat, more or less contiguous, and hardwood dominated (as I have
viewed from the top of a loblolly pine). Loblolly pines are the exception,
being super-emergent, much taller on average that the hardwood canopy and
comprising a very small percentage of the trees in Congaree. But even so,
this hardwood canopy is not consistently tall.

The canopy height across the swamp as a whole is really tall, but not as
exceptional as reported by Dr. Jones. As I mentioned in my reply to Josh
Kelly (which you may not have read), several ENTS (Leverett, J&D Riddle,
Davie, Coyle, Eichholtz, Kelly, Blozan, etc.) have documented superlative
heights that comprise an impressive Rucker Index for the park as a whole.
Unfortunately, these superlative trees are generally not represented well
(as of current, fairly exhaustive data collection) and as such are anomalies
in the sense that the high canopy is not replicated (iterated) with much
depth. I will not regurgitate the height discussion in my earlier replies
but there are sites much smaller than the entire CSNP that have a similar or
higher Rucker Index, and not just in the Smokies. In fact, several districts
of GRSM far smaller than CSNP exceed the RI of Congaree, thus not just a
single site (and they are mostly second-growth). As in Congaree, these sites
incorporate a varied array of habitats and forest types- some of which
contribute no individuals to the Rucker Indices.

I have traversed much of Congaree, as have Jess Riddle and Michael Davie and
I think we all can report that there are large stretches of forest in
Congaree that are relatively "short" and not exceptional. These sites are
tupelo sloughs, second-growth sweetgum/hardwood and older cypress sites.
These would be analogous to the ridges in the southern Appalachians; shorter
trees sheltering the high-canopy cove forests. What may be "needed" are tree
height transects of equal length and representation in southern Appalachian
forests and those of Congaree. I can almost certainly guarantee that those
of the mountain sites will be taller on average. But a study such as this is
apples to oranges. Congaree is flat; the mountains are a mix of topography.
The coves are really tall, the ridges shorter. For the given area, the
mountain forests will have taller trees on average than Congaree. For
example, Big Fork Ridge in Cataloochee, NC- less than 10 square miles has a
RI of over 153. If you were to exclude the "low canopy" forests of Congaree
any idea what the higher canopy bluff forest acreage may be?

I am sure you would agree that VAST areas of Congaree are dominated by
sweetgum, both old and second-growth, right? I suppose an analogous species
would be tuliptree in the southern Appalachians. So far, ENTS has never
documented a sweetgum over 160' and 150 footers are quite rare (< 10 I
think). Leverett and I did a mass measuring (laser) of sweetgum several
years ago and found them to average ~ 128'. Do the same study in tuliptree
forests in the mountains (we measured the tallest-looking sweetgum in
Congaree) and you can add 20 feet or more. Yes, they are confined to coves
but there are lots and lots of them. Tuliptree would get my vote as the
tallest eastern species!

The tallest forests we ENTS know of in the east are second-growth- many of
these just now coming into "maturation" (whatever that means). I feel we
have yet to see (measure) the tallest hardwoods in the southern
Appalachians. As such, ENTS is in the "golden era" of tree height studies.
As per your reference to the number of tree species over 140'; Congaree has
nine species. Except for a select few these are anomalies (not replicated in
any depth at that height). Nine species is considerably less than even the
small section of lower Big Creek, which has no less than sixteen species
known to reach 140'- and it is but 70-120 years old. Within the forests of
lower Big Creek dozens of tuliptrees can be found over 170' tall- a height
that has only been documented TWICE in all of Congaree.

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TOPIC: Jones Gap State Park SC
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/e382f22bcf81ecc6?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 17 2008 6:02 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

James,

Excellent report. The mountains of South Carolina hold vast tall tree treasurers. You may have read some of Jess Riddle's past field reports. If not, many are posed on the website.

There are other treasurers in South Carolina left for ENTS to discover and there is the question of further nailing down Congaree's role as a tall tree site. It looks like next February is going to be the best time for Monica and me to get down there. Might that be a time you could rendezvous with us. The date works for Will.

Bob

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TOPIC: Planned Visit to Congaree
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/0f236c5ab11404f8?hl=en
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== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 7:34 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Will,

Thanks for the explanation on the National Register. I didn't think I was hallucinating when I saw the Connecticut maple listed. Now to another subject.

Would next February work for you for a trip to Congaree. I realize that you'd prefer to do it sooner, but February works for Will Blozan and I think James Parton can make it at that time also. I hope Don Bragg, Larry Tucei and the Virginia team would be able to make it. If Lee can make it, that would be terrific. If BVP could make it, then all the t's would be crossed. Regardless of who is able to make it, we should collectively coauther an article for the ENTS Bulletin.

Because of the flat terrain and the broad spreads of species like the cherry bark oak, Congaree presents special measurement challenges We frequently discuss the measurement problems in our email exchanges, but I think ENTS should formally address the challenge, acting as a group. We should invite members of the Park staff to join us so they can observe the methods we use to measure tall, broad crowned trees clustered together and growing in difficult measuring terrain such as swamps. If I understand the past history of ENTS involvement well enough, an attempt at Park education was done before, but I don't think the lessons were fully absorbed. Park personel had conflicting information about species heights and the position of Congaree in the forest height hierarchy. At the best, it had to be a confusing situation for them. They were not in a position to render an authoritative judgement.

Assuming the dust has settlled over the recent issue of conflicting tree height information, it is time to offer our services to Congaree NP. We could organize an effort presented as an official ENTS tree measuring workshop to be held at Congaree in February. The measurement results we obtain could be put to multiple uses. In addition to providing the definitive study of tree height in Congaree, data from the broad-crowned hardwoods could be incorported into the planned book on dendromorphometry to illustrate how best to measure those kinds of forms.

One point I feel strongly about is that we need to make the visit to Congaree a big deal in terms of how we advertise it and in the on the ground effort we put into it. Most unfortunately, the significance and value of the past tree measuring effort put into Congaree by ENTS has been lost in the controversy generated by a prior study of trees in Congaree. That study, performed by an otherwise highly qualified forester, used traditional tangent-based tree height measurement methods. However, as we've seen over and over and over, the traditional methods don't work well in places like Congaree. We should recognize the well-intended purpose of the Jones study. It served as an important first step in revealing the importance of the Congaree Swamp forest. We should now quietly put this first study aside and continue gathering tree height and volume measurements to the standard of accuracy that science demands. We should engineer methods to derive better average canopy heights. At t
he end, we should publish the results of our efforts in the ENTS Bulletin and present a copy to the NPS in recognition of the importance of Congaree National Park.

Bob

-

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 8:08 am
From: Beth Koebel

Bob,

I would like to come and join you and the rest of the
ENTS. It will depend on two things...1) if I'm
working or not and 2) how much can I afford at the
time.

Beth

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 9:30 am
From: Gary Smith

ENTS

February should be a great time of the year to visit Congaree. I was
there in '94, things were dry and I was able to wonder all over the
lower portions.

Someone might ought to check with a park ranger in regards to the
flooding patterns of the Congaree River.

I've mentioned this before, but some of you might also wish to check
out the Beidler Forest, aka Four Holes Swamp, which is an Audubon
sanctuary and not too terribly far down the interstate from Congaree.

gs

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 9:44 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Beth,

I hope you'll be able to make it. Congaree is a great forest and deserves our best efforts to view it from the appropriate perspective. What it needs from us is a good high caliber "statistical rendering", to coin a phrase. We need a master measurement plan and as soon as I find out who will be joining us in Congaree, I'll begin work on drafting one. The dream team would be BVP, Lee Frelich, and Don Bragg heading an intensive measurement blitz, with plenty of mathematical models being tested. With an all ENTS team establishing the study design and collecting all the data, we wouldn't have to contend with nonsense. Any way, hope you'll be able to be part of the team.

BTW, the next official ENTS gathering will be Oct 31-Nov 2 in western Massachusetts. If you can come, we'll find you a place to stay.

Bob

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 9:57 am
From: doncbragg@netscape.net

Bob--

I don't have an "official" calendar up and running for next February yet, but I suspect it may be fairly open...? I will try to keep it as a possibility, especially if y'all can narrow down the time period...? I'm all for putting the results in a Bulletin article.

I'm not going to be able to make this year's fall ENTS gathering, unfortunately--our unit is hosting a southern silviculture meeting just a couple weeks later, and I'll be swamped with those details.? However, make sure to get me the info on this fall's meeting ASAP, so I can put in an ad for it in the Bulletin.

Don

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don C. Bragg, Ph.D.
Research Forester
USDA Forest Service
Southern Research Station
DonCBragg@netscape.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The opinions expressed in this message are my own, and not necessarily those of the Southern Research Station, the Forest Service, or the USDA.

Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 10:21 am
From: James Parton

Bob,

Hell or high water, I will be there. How long depends on my work
schedule. I am often off on vacation shut-down at the end of March to
early April. But maybe I can get a couple of days off in February and
of course there are weekends.

James P.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 1:40 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Don,

Sorry you'll miss the fall gathering. The period of Feb 20-22 would work for Will and me at Congaree. If that is fine with the rest, let's go with it, at least for planning purposes.

Bob

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 5:04 pm
From: Beth Koebel

Bob,

I'm off during this time as well and have put on my
calendar. Once again it will be a matter of finance.

Beth

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 6:28 pm
From: Larry

Bob, Way cool stuff! Count me in for sure. I won't miss a chance at
this special place. See ya in February!

Larry

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 3 2008 6:47 pm
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

Larry,

Soooper Doooper. We're building up a heck of a fine measuring team.

Bob

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 4 2008 12:00 pm
From: Gary Smith

Will/ENTS

I wasn't suggesting a group/tree measuring expedition to Four Holes.
Congaree definitely has more variety of trees.

I was just thinking that for anyone making a long drive to SC that it
would make for a wonderful side trip to see the magnificient trees at
Four Holes. There is a boardwalk that goes for over one mile through
the best of the old growth. The concentration of old cypress at Four
Holes is hands down one of the best anywhere. Some of those trees
right on the boardwalk are way up in age.

Gary S.

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TOPIC: Congaree Or Bust
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/2e3f7c8f92a922ec?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 7 2008 8:27 am
From: dbhguru@comcast.net

ENTS,

As a preparation for our rendezvous at Congaree Swamp NP next February 20-23(?), we need to perfect a measurement protocal for establishing the average canopy height of a forest site. Lee Frelich has a good method that utilizes parallel transects. He perfected the method in the Porcupine Mtns years ago. So there is no need for us to reinvent the wheel. Now, putting the method into practice in Congaree's terrain may test our collective abilities and patience, and tolerance to getting wet, but that's what the top-of-the-line ENTS troops are all about. Hopefully the Pennsylvania A-Team will present along with the fast developing Southeastern A-Team. Don Bragg holds down the southwestern branch of ENTS pretty much solo and he's an absolute must to join us. Based on a conversation last night, Lee would have to juggle a demanding winter-spring 2009 teaching schedule to join us. Let's hope he ca n do that. If Dr. Tom Diggins is reading the ENTS emails these days: "Hey, Tom, we need
you, buddy.". The dream team would include Lee Frelich, BVP, Don Bragg, Tom Diggins, Bruce Allen, and dare I mention his name: Roman Dial as the academic heavyweights. Then Will Blozan, Jess Riddle, the full PA A-Team, Will Fell, Larry Tucei Jr, James Parton, Howard Stoner, John Eichholz, Gary Beluzo, Scott Wade, Beth Koebel, Holly Post, John Knuerr, Don Bertolette, Randy Brown, and lil ol me would make up the measuring grunts. Does Congaree Swamp deserve such attention? YES! Of course it does. Can the NPS field even a fraction of the team that ENTS could field to take forest height profiling to the next level? No, not possible for the limited funding the NPS has or its internal experience.
The idea as conceived by Will in a conversation between us last evening evening would be to organize ourselves into teams with each team assigned a particular mission as opposed to all of us grouping together and then stumbling into a trackless swamp, mob style, measuring what strikes our fancies. I think we all agree that Congaree NP is a very important big tree/tall tree site and could serve us well as a model for how we will establish average forest canopy height for a forest property across its forest types, age structures, and classes of terrain.
If we agree to such an ambitious mission as just proposed, we should begin it by paying homage to others who have preceded us in focusing the big tree spotlight on Congaree. Obviously, this includes Bruce Allen and Bob Jones. I would propose that we acknowledge them as the pioneers who recognized an exceptional forest and worked to establish a national awareness of Congaree's status. It would be awesome to have either or both of them join us as part of the team. Certainly they have valuable site-based knowledge that is not possessed by any of the rest of us. It would be foolish not to avail ourselves of their expertise if either or both is receptive. Let's let bygones be bygones. The offer is on the table.
In listing individuals above, I have not intentionally left anyone out. Other ENTS with measuring tree measuring skills are naturally included. Names from the past like Darin Copiz come to mind.

Bob

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TOPIC: Eucaypt redemption
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/t/30ab28b7b83fafdb?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 13 2008 8:48 am
From: "Edward Frank"

Bruce, ENTS,

That should be one of the goals of the Congaree Trip - to ground truth the LIDAR results. To see how well the upper branches were seen and figure out what density of branches is needed to show up on the image. Are you going to make the trip in the end of February? (21 -23rd)

Ed Frank

"

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 13 2008 10:59 am
From: DON BERTOLETTE

Bruce-
Do you know what time of year the LIDAR imagery was captured?
-DonRB

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