Wanakena White Pine, NY  Anthony Kelly

TOPIC: Wanakena White Pine

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 15 2007 10:02 am
From: anthonkell@hotmail.com

Bob et al,

It's already been 12 days since I returned to Pittsburgh from my 17-
day trip to the Adirondacks and the Forest Summit. I visited quite a
few Adirondack old-growth areas: The Saint Regis Canoe Area, Ampersand
Mountain, Paul Smiths' Elders' Grove (where in the middle of the woods
I ran into Howard and Margaret Stoner!), The Racquette Lake Red Pines,
The Cathedral Pines of Seventh Lake, and the very northern tip of The
Five Ponds Wilderness Area.

I haven't yet had the time to put together a thorough report on my
travels. There is one particularly impressive tree that I'd like to
quickly ask you about, though. It is a massive old white pine on or
near the property of the Ranger School in Wanakena, NY. It is just
north of the Five Ponds Wilderness Area in a small stand of old-growth
white pine that survived the 1995 derecho.

I learned about this tree from a forestry professor at the Ranger
School. It apparently has quite a reputation with the locals. There
is a dedicated path that leads right up to it. I don't recall it
being talked about by you or Howard or any other ents.

I took my time and measured it quite carefully from different angles
and got 14'4" X 143.2'. The first branch is 74' up. It's the massive
trunk, though, that is most impressive. It just shoots straight up
with very little bend or taper. I wished that I had your RD 1000.
Its volume must be enormous. I'd never seen another like it, even at
Elders' Grove or Cook Forest. At Elders' Grove I measured a white
pine at 14'3" X 155.0' (Howard's tag #109). The CBH of that tree
included some root flair, though, and the trunk showed a normal amount
of taper.

What do you know about this Wanakena white pine?

Anthony Kelly

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 15 2007 10:14 am
From: "Will Blozan"


Do you have any photos of the tree? I must climb it! It must be really close
to a 1000 cuber!


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 15 2007 11:26 am
From: anthonkell@hotmail.com


Unfortunately, I was out of film that day. (I'm still kicking myself
for it. I must go digital!) I don't know if the photos would have
given a good idea of the massive size of the trunk, though, without
another person in the picture. I would have liked to get a few good
shots of the crown, though. They might give you a better idea of the
tree. I seem to remember wondering whether the top had been broken
off at some point, because of how thick the trunk still was near the
top. It really is massive!

I hope that Howard or Bob have seen or measured the tree and can tell
you more.

The name of the forestry professor who told me about it was James M.
Savage. I don't know if he would be able to tell you anything more
about that particular tree or not. He was quite knowledgable about
the various blow down damage to the old-growth in Five Ponds. His
email is jmsavage@esf.edu.

Incidentally, the "Ranger School" is actually called SUNY-ESF. I
don't know whether the tree is known to anybody at SUNY in Syracuse,
but maybe Jess Riddle could ask around there and find out. You did
tell me that Jess is now at SUNY, Syracuse, right?

Anthony Kelly

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 15 2007 12:31 pm
From: "Will Blozan"


Hopefully Jess Riddle or Howard can visit the tree and get some solid
reticle shots on it. Sounds like a contender for one of the biggest white


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 15 2007 2:00 pm
From: dbhguru


Way to go. You've found a very important tree. It sounds like a 1000 cuber. I feel it in my catheter! Yep, it just may go to the top of the chart and vie with th Tamworth Pine as the Northeast's biggest. I want to see and model it. Of course, Will climbing it would be the real deal.


TOPIC: Wanakena White Pine

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 7:05 pm

Tony et al,
I measured the Wanakena Pine in Oct. 2003.
Height 142.4 and cbh 14.1
I had the same impression regarding the top, that part of it was missing. Somewhere in the recess of my memory is a story about the top of this tree. The top of this pine was once visible from Ranger School. Following one of the big storms it disappeared. One can only imagine another 10 - 15 ft on top of what is there.
It is doubtful that I get up that way again this fall, but if I do I will attempt to get a volume measure on it.

TOPIC: Wanakena White Pine

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 10:36 am
From: Anthony Kelly


Do you remember what the locals call that tree? I seem to remember them calling it something or other. I sent an email to the forestry prof who told me about it, but haven't heard back yet. I'm thinking that if it has a name it might be possible to find some online pictures of the thing by Googling.

There was a guy working in the Wanakena general store who also knew about the tree and gave me some very specific maps made from satellite photos showing exactly which areas of Five Ponds were blown down. I'll have to try to contact him, too.

I have to wonder whether local folks or older Ranger School people knew about any other large pines way down in the Five Ponds Area that would have been blown down. At 50,000 acres its fun to imagine what might have been (or still may be) down there unnoticed.

Are there any trees at Elders' Grove that would be like the one in Wanakena, volumewise? I don't remember seeing anything like it at Elders' Grove, but I didn't see all of that site. I measured two trees there that had similar girths. The one that I mentioned in a previous email on this thread is 14'3" x 155.0'. That one still had some root flair in the CBH. It had one of your tags (#109). Another one (tag #110) had a CBH of 15'6", but had a deformed bottom that was exageratedly bigger than the rest of the trunk which quickly became much thinner. I believe I read about this tree in one of your old posts. You have a name it, I believe.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 11:06 am
From: Anthony Kelly


Looks like Howard got to the tree four years before me.
His Oct 2003 measurements pretty much match up with mine, so it looks like we're talking about the same tree. I hope that the volume does go 1000ft3 for you. I'll be waiting to hear the results.

I'll be going back to that area next year. I am hoping to find someone to go backpacking into the Five Ponds Wilderness Area with me.

A guy working at the Wanakeena general store gave me a satelite map of the blow down area and an old tax sale map which indicates where the old-growth area boundries are.

There was one area just off the Oswagatchee River he pointed out that is not mentioned in your book.

Much of the Five Ponds Area old-growth is miles back in, so a multiday backpacking trip would be the only practical way to get a good look at most of it. The problem is getting through many of the blow down areas to get to it. Only a few of the trails through the area have been re-opened since 1995.

The forestry prof who pointed my way to the big pine has been down through some of it and warned me that much of it is really tough going and told me stories of experienced backpackers who've gotten into trouble trying to bushwack through there, so I'll have to be careful not to get overly ambitious.

Anybody interested?

What is the volume of the Tamworth Pine?


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 11:19 am
From: grousedog

I visited the pine in Wanakena last January. My wife and I learned of
it from a brochure given to us at our lodging, Pack Basket Adventures
that is located in Wanakena (one of the proprietor's is/was a
professor at the Ranger school). The pine is called the "Lone Pine."
In the brochure it lists the pine as 54" dbh x 145'. It still stands
proudly above the surrounding forest. I actually have pictures of the
pine but I don't know how to post them here. From one photo you can
see the top. It does not look broken, but intact and healthy. If
someone can tell me how to post, or would like me to email them the
photos, let me know.


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 11:30 am
From: grousedog

I should add that if anyone goes to Wanakena again, you must visit the
old growth that is east of the Ranger school. While we were up there,
my wife and I cross country skied along three loops that begin at the
Ranger school parking lot next to the lake. On the first loop there
is a lean-to on the lake shore. Behind it is a huge hemlock.
Unfortunately, it was so cold that I was more concerned with getting
back alive than taking a photo of the tree. Along the second loop you
enter some old growth. I don't know if it was selectively harvested
in the past, but there are many, many large yellow birch, sugar maple,
balsam fir, white pine, hemlock, and red/black spruce. I've never
seen such large hemlocks in my short life! As I recall, we skied
through a beautiful hemlock grove. Someone needs to visit that forest
to take some measurements.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 12:53 pm
From: dbhguru


The Tamworth Pine is close to 1000. It may exceed it slightly. Its dimensions are 14.5 feet around and 150 feet in height.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 4:47 pm
From: James Parton


I too would like to know how to post pictures directly to the
discussion. Yahoo Mail will never let me copy/paste a pic directly
into the body of an e-mail. I usually send Ed the picture(s) as an
attachment & let him add them as he updates the webpage. Lately Ed has
had computer problems but he may have it back up now.

James P.

TOPIC: Wanakena White Pine

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 8:51 am
From: Anthony Kelly


I look forward to seeing your pictures of this tree. I was out of film the day I visited it.

Regarding the top. I didn't mean that it looked recently broken off, only that I thought that it might have at one time in the past had the top broken off, then since healed over and grown another newer, smaller one top.

I didn't get to visit the old-growth area east of the ranger school that you mentioned. I had just been told about that area by the professor who told me about the giant pine. I ran out of time and wasn't able to go there. It's definitely on my list for next year's visit.

Incidentally, I just recieved an email response from that professor as to whether the big pine is on Ranger School property. It is not. It is, in fact, on state land that is part of the Five Ponds Wilderness Area.



TOPIC: Photos of Wanakena white pine

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:35 am
From: Anthony Kelly

Bob, Will, et al, If you remember, back in November I made a couple posts about a huge white pine that I had measured a few weeks earlier near Wanakena, NY (Adirondacks). I got 14.3' X 143.2'. The first branch was 74' up. Howard Stoner had measured the tree in October 2003 and got 14.1' X 142.4'. What was remarkable about this tree was that its trunk was very straight and had very little taper -- just massive. You'd both speculated that it might go 1000 cubic feet. Will, you had asked to see photos, but I was out of film the day I visited it, so I had none. A couple days ago, Howard Hoople, a guy who has a summer place at nearby Cranberry Lake, sent me two photos of the tree. He was googling it and came across our discussion on the ENTS website. I've attached his pictures to this post. If for some reason they don't show up, I've also uploaded them to the 'files' section of ENTS list at Google. You can see them there if you're interested. 

Anthony Kelly


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 11:26 am
From: "Will Blozan"


Thanks for sending these- looks like a climber! Perhaps this fall.