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TOPIC: Surprises from the Tsuga Search Project
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/3731c664f80d5d1b?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:44 pm
From: "Edward Frank"


Will, ENTS,

Some amazing hemlocks were found as part of the Tsuga Search Project. Many were much larger than any previously documented. Some trees were in areas you had visited before, while others were in coves or ridges that had not been visted by ENTS measurers before. One of the things that surprised me however, was what you did not find. That is a White Pine taller than the Boogerman Pine. At last measure, at least in my notes, it was at 186.feet tall, that is a full 21feet shorter than it had been in 1995, when it reached 207 feet tall. The Seneca Pine at Cook Forest PA is at 182.1 (2005) and I believe there are 4 or five others scattered around between the Seneca Pine and he Boogerman Pine in height. With the intense exploration, visitation of new areas and sites, I am really surprised that a tree was not found taller than the current height of the Boogerman. There are a number right in that height range, and demonstratably the species has the potential to go over 205 in the GSMNP. Why do you think you didn't you find one? Perhaps you did and are not telling us about it?

Ed Frank

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surprises from the Tsuga Search Project
http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees/browse_thread/thread/3731c664f80d5d1b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 22 2007 8:06 am
From: "Will Blozan"


Ed,

I remeasured the "Boog" to 187.6' tall this past year on 1/17/2007. It has
not been measured after this year's growth. You are correct about Jess and I
not finding any superlative (tall) white pines in the Tsuga Search surveys.
This may be due in part to not being in prime habitat for white pine
(whatever that may be). In fact, large white pine only showed up in one
Tsuga Search plot and it was a snag. I wouldn't say the sites for
superlative white pine and hemlock overlap much in the eastern Smokies
(however, there is a 159.9' hemlock about 150 feet from the Boog). During
the Tsuga Search we did measure two large pines; the ~940 cube, 13'8" X
148.8' Mill Creek Pine and a 13'9" X 152' beast Michael Davie reported on
but didn't measure several years ago on Hurricane Creek. There is a nice
pine on Big Fork Ridge that will take some effort to measure due to
undergrowth that should be in the mid 160's. Not significantly tall but in
the Rucker for the site. So far on Big Fork Ridge hemlock and tuliptree are
taller than white pine, but to be fair those species were in the sites we
intensively surveyed.

I think the remaining white pine discoveries in GRSM are in the western
Smokies and perhaps the second-growth forests on the NC side above Lake
Fontana.

Will

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 22 2007 8:44 am
From: James Parton


Will,

At the great height of the Boogerman Pine, how much do you think it
grows in a year? I remember asking you that about the 130-145 foot
pines at Kellogg and you said they might grow a foot a season. The "
Boog " is nearly 50 feet taller so no doubt grows slower. I last
visited the " Boog " back in July.

James Parton.