Re: Measurements vs Interpretations lef Nov 30, 2003 14:45 PST
 Bob: Good points. We will have to find some way of expressing the Rucker index on a per area basis so that we know how to compare forest with different acreage. That's a tough one to figure out, and we will see if anyone solves the problem. I have been puzzled by the reaction of some academics upon hearing that they have been measuring trees the wrong way and inaccurately for years. It is traditional for people at universities to try everything that is new and compare it to the old before rejecting anything. Yet, for some you get that flat refusal to believe, at least until I tell them I use the ENTS method, and then they suddenly start to take it seriously. Maybe people in academia hear so many crackpot ideas all the time that they just put ENTS in the same category, because if they gave serious consideration to everything that came along they would never get anything else done. Therefore, something that will make ENTS tree measuring stand out against the background is probably necessary. I should say that some academics immediately see the benefits of measuring the ENTS way and start using it right away. Regarding my Ph.D., I haven't been able to find the diploma since I moved to MN 15 years ago. Now that I am renovating my condo I will have to go through a lot of old stuff and maybe I will come across it. No one has ever asked to see it, not even the University of MN when they hired me. I guess that means a Ph.D. is more than a piece of fake sheepskin with the fake (i.e. printed) signature of the university president on it. Lee
 RE: Measurements vs Interpretations dbhg-@comcast.net Dec 01, 2003 04:41 PST
 Lee, Dale, et al:    The resistance to accepting sine-based calculations over tangent-based ones is understandable as a first impulse. But as one begins thinking in terms of equipment limitations (clinometers only measure angles), tree shape, and the basic trigonometry involved, one is inevitably pointed in the direction of rangefinders and angle-measurers. Once into the groove, the logic becomes inescapable. It is all in taking that first step.     For us, reaching potential allies requires the application of more than a modicum of human psychology. I've survived in enough different kinds of human hierarchies over the years including the military, other government agencies, business, and academia to fully comprehend the dynamics. I often act surprised at people's reactions, but that's all show. Still, on occasion, I get exasperated when someone with the education steadfastly refused to acknowledge a high school-level argument, trying to remain aloof through the illusory cloak of protection that one's profession presumably imparts. With all present company accepted, forestry has been particularly vulnerable to its own professional hype - but on thinking about it, I suppose medicine has been no less so. Then there is the gulf between branches of physics, cosmologists versus quantum physicists. Different schools of economics have finally emerged and are pitted against one another. So maybe forestry isn't the exception, but the rule. I guess it is more in where the challenge comes from. External challenges are the most threatening. What? How did they arrive at such an outrageous conclusion? They're not even part of our profession. Guess we really haven't evolved so far from those early days on the savannas. Physical or intellectual territory - still territory. Bob

 RE: Measurements vs Interpretations lluthr-@hotmail.com Nov 30, 2003 18:53 PST
 Lee, Bob, I have found similar resistance, but it is understandable when one presents the ENTS method with only a bachelors in ecology. What is promising though are the few in research community that have adopted the method. I recently had some research scientists from the Allegheny National Forest stop by to 'calibrate' their lasers to the Longfellow Pine. One of their main researchers (over 20+ years experience) attended the 1997 and 2002 ENTS events at Cook Forest... something must have rubbed off on the young pups. Dale
 Territorial Tree Measurement Imperative and Random Ape Calls: Robert Leverett Dec 01, 2003 13:39 PST