questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tree hike   jarred trout
  Oct 15, 2003 18:25 PDT 

brothers and sisters of ENTS:

as i am trying to reconnect to a past that i miss dearly, one of outdoors, trees, nature, and the like; i have a question that is needs answer(s) and further definition.

on a recent trip into the wilderness along with brother bob, brother john k, and a bunch of troubled kids from the Brightside (part of our mothership organization) i re-experienced something that i used to know well.

we left bob's house about 8:30 a.m. or so and made our way (picking up brother john k, about three towns up) to MTSF for a hike and lesson about the wilderness.

it wasnt a long time out (we got back around 2:30 in the afternoon), it wasnt a strenuous foray, it was just a peaceful time answering questions and keeping our young flock in check.

but what I did notice (and what is still with me today) is a slowing of time if you will...

i still have to be to work for 8:30 or so, lunch is still around 12 noon, we clock out at around 4:30, but things are noticeably different

even though i am bound by the clock (pagers, voicemail, email, cell phone, etc.) it seems that time has been..., and is still attenuated by our walk in the green.

was wondering if you folks think it is a quirk on my part (maybe some vitamin deficiency or tri-polar issue on my part) or am i lucky to have clock into something universal?

i am an avid reader of the forum and try to understand the general topics, although i am lost most of the time, have tried to chime in from a laypersons perspective, and feel connected in some shape to yall.

have i missed the mark on this perception, might it be the first signs on lyme disease (i did find a couple of deer ticks on me the day after) or is this part of the mojo that takes one out of the office and into the green?

sorry for taking a tangent, but worked up the nerve to ask the question of the elders.

i am sincerely yours as usual, in the pine pitch;

Re: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tree hike
  Oct 15, 2003 19:32 PDT 


My friend, your perception of time slowing down is not a quirk. Not at all. The experience happens to many of us when we are able to let go of our misplaced sense of urgency that accompanies our self-induced, fast-paced lives. But before I babble about changes of time flow for me, I'll let others have the podium and share their experiences, because once I get started on this topic, time slows down for those listening. I put folks to sleep.

Re: questions on a change in the perception of time via a
small, big tree hike
  Robie Hubley
  Oct 16, 2003 01:21 PDT 

My dear jarred

i do believe you have come to your senses

Re: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tree hike
  Oct 16, 2003 04:23 PDT 


   Now that Robey has added his perspective, I'll throw in a few more thoughts about you sense of time slowing down this past Saturday. As one married to a Native American, I've been fortunate to have spent quality time in the company of traditional Native elders. Around them, one comes to experience, understand, and hopefully appreciate the concept of "Indian time". It moves deliberately and slowly. Then there's those hazy, lazy days of summer spent in early youth around a frog pond, a river, on a swing, etc. The sense of slowed time flow you experienced is related to these examples, but is not identical.

   The ego-driven conscious mind seeks to fill the seconds with thought that it uses to aggrandize its self-importance or at least stave off its feelings of vulnerability. Today's multi-tasking and all of that silly nonsense is related to the ego's vulnerability. Sometimes our surroundings can break through the wall and if only for a few hours, change time flow for us.

    In a future e-mail, I'll share two experiences that profoundly affected me me where my perception of time slowed greatly.

Re: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small,
big tree hike
  Miles Lowry
  Oct 16, 2003 10:22 PDT 

Fellow philosophers,
I recall once falling asleep on top of Pyramid Mountain, a 14-er within the
Maroon Bells Wilderness Area in Colorado. Upon waking, below me stretched a
valley whose gullies ran perpendicular to the ridge opposite the peak. It
seemed so sublimely symmetrical, measured and human in construction.

I watched the shadows creep over the ridge, took out a sketch pad and tried
to follow the edges of things on paper. I fell asleep that evening in what
we climbing instructors called our "festering" position and awoke the next
morning to witness the progression of light from the other side of the

I'm confident those who truly know the Grand Canyon have had similar
experiences of grandeur.

A vibrant primary forest has that same grandeur to me. Thanks to this group,
I've been more able to witness their grandeur both visually and as symbols
of that timelessness we all strive to experience.

Miles Lowry
RE: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tre   Robert Leverett
  Oct 16, 2003 11:41 PDT 


Thanks for sharing your transcendental experiences. Only those who
take the time to go to great places and linger know the true grandeur of
creation. I sometimes worry that our ENTS focus on measuring trees will
mislead people about how we really feel. However, many of us commune
with nature through mathematics and our perseverance in getting accurate
numbers is more about telling the story of the mountains, the rivers,
and the trees than in satisfying some inner compulsion, although that is
undeniably there in us also. However, it is important that we share
these transcendental experiences and periodically refocus ourselves to
maintain the delicate balances between the two types of energy.

[material deleted] 


RE: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tre   jarred trout
  Oct 16, 2003 12:26 PDT 

brother bob, brother miles, and sisters of ENTS:

my first post about time differentials in the woods and the question that i asked was a direct connection to ENTS and all the fine work/posts that you all have done.

from a laypersons perspective, this listserve has a lot of heavy duty info that is cryptic as all get out. but (and this my own biased opinion) there is a connectedness to what for me can be named and that which cannot.

i am and have always been aware of this connection every since i was a little fry in the river of life. the good thing is that with age (no offense brother bob and brother john k.) comes learning and with learning and patience comes connections to those who travel the same path....

although we might not walk in the same steps, we do intersect (and with ENTS and the listserve) it is more than tangential.

and as i see it, that which has been made more clearer now, thanks to you fine folks, is access to a portal on the universe which allows us to shed the weights that hold us down. in my case it is the unbalance between the corporate, shirt and tie, horse hockey and the re-birth and reconnection to being present in the moment. taking this one step farther, learning how to be in the present moment no matter how or what our trade in life is. to see ones time here as a vocation and to leave it better than from once we came is the goal, one and only

years ago, a big tree friend of mine stopped me in my tracks and lit a candle of hope with these few words....

"jarred, you got to stop living to work and start working to live"

well with the second pass through MTSF, which has been a long, long, time coming,,,

i can see it for what it is;

giving to yourself with care and respect gives more to others by being in the moment and by being connected.

thank-you again!

sincerely yours in the pine pitch,

brother jarred trout

Re: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tre   Don Bertolette
  Oct 16, 2003 18:04 PDT 

I actually had to leave grandeur to find it!
After months of way to many hours working FOR Grand Canyon NP, I took some
long overdue annual leave and headed to the high Sierras for ten glorious,
time slowing days in the shadows of classic mixed conifer old-growth. I had
not replaced a watch that had ceased to function, and hours passed without
my awareness (to the point of missing meals that most of my life I had made
a point of being regularly associated with).
Ah, blessed time...
Re: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tre
  Oct 16, 2003 18:43 PDT 


   Please fill us in on your return to the High Sierras. What were your feelings about them this time?

    We've been on a roll here lately. Great images, poetry, and now philosophical musings about time.

    Oh yes, and welcome back. We've missed you.
Re: questions on a change in the perception of time via a small, big tre   Don Bertolette
  Oct 16, 2003 20:42 PDT 

You know, I brought along vestiges of the fast lane world (new Opti-logic
LH600, digital camera) but in the end, it was a series of gin and tonics in
a frosted chimney glass, dripping with condensation, that slowed time down
enough for me to appreciate my environs. And fine environs they were, our
campground feted with several 60 inch or better mixed conifer old-growth
species per acre. The whispering of wind through the crowns mixing subtley
with the nearby riffles on Gerle Creek, sun glinting on eastern brookies
taunting the fly fisherman flaunting their new Eddie Bauer/LL Bean/Cabela
wear and gear...
While I'm back at work now, it is with a warier eye towards the importance
of putting out the fires (figure of speech) we didn't plan outwell
enough...looking forward to another stretch of off-time soon, may even break
out the Optilogic this time!